"Reading a roll call of hockey's greatest forwards usually goes something like this: Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Rocket Richard, Mario Lemieux, Mark Messier, Phil Esposito . . . then one big contentious debate.

Where Joe Sakic ranks among the great all-time NHL forwards no doubt will make for spirited future barroom discussions. At 1 p.m. today, on the ninth day of the month, No. 19 of the Avalanche will start his retirement, and the debate can begin.

Comparing players from different eras and positions is tough, but Sakic played in the NHL so long — 20 years — that many believe he should be considered among the 10 best forwards to wear skates.

"I think he's right at the top of the heap. Because when you're as good as he was for that long a period of time, that's amazing," Columbus Blue Jackets coach Ken Hitchcock said. "I can't even remember the growth part (of his career). I remember he was really good right away in Quebec."

Sakic ranks among the top 10 all-time in several key statistical areas, including eighth in points (1,681). When it comes to playoff statistics, Sakic lands in elite company.

The player Sakic most often is compared with is Detroit Red Wings great Steve Yzerman. Both are from British Columbia and played their long careers with the same team. Both were captains for most of their careers, and both wore No. 19.

Yzerman was better, his supporters say, because he not only had more points (1,755) but more Stanley Cups (three to two). Sakic, however, had three more postseason points than Yzerman, (188-185) and more postseason goals (84-70). And Sakic remains the all-time leader in postseason overtime goals (eight), and he has one other thing Yzerman doesn't: a most valuable player trophy from an Olympics (2002, with Canada).

Still, Yzerman has that extra Stanley Cup ring, an achievement that could have been reversed if the Avs hadn't loss three Game 7s in the Western Conference finals, including the last one, to Detroit in 2002.

So who was better, Sakic or Yzerman?

"At the risk of being a fence-sitter, it's a tie," said Hockey Hall of Fame writer Jim Matheson of the Edmonton Journal, who covered all of Wayne Gretzky's teams. "Sakic and Yzerman were the second wave of great centers behind Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Esposito and (Jean) Beliveau. Yzerman wasn't as fast as Joe, but was maybe a better passer. Both players came in as offensive whiz kids and learned, over time, to be ultimate two-way players who could be on the ice in the last minute of games protecting leads.

"Their personalities were similar: quiet leadership. Yzerman had to play through more injuries than Joe, but both, when the game was on the line, were ultimate clutch players."

Sakic's and Yzerman's teams met five times in the playoffs, with the Avalanche winning three times.

Another forward Sakic is often compared against is Dallas Stars center Mike Modano, who came into the league one year after Sakic, and will play a 20th season in 2009-10, all for the same organization. Hitchcock coached Modano to his only Stanley Cup with the Stars in 1999.

"Sakic was fast, but Modano was probably one of the top two or three fastest skaters in the game in his prime," Hitchcock said. "I hate to compare players like that. All I know is they were both great players, and I've had the privilege of coaching both of them."

Modano counts Sakic among the top five forwards he ever played against. "