MLB commissioner Rob Manfred appeared on Dan LeBatard’s ESPN radio show today. The show originates out of Miami and the Marlins and their recent fire sale were, understandably, the main topic of conversation.

But though the topic was predictable, it turned out to be a combative interview, in which Manfred deployed some lawyerly evasion when it appeared he was caught in a lie about his and the league’s foreknowledge of the Marlins’ plans to slash payroll after being sold to Bruce Sherman and Derek Jeter. And it ended with Manfred, apparently, giving his full endorsement to tanking.

The interview — video/audio of which can be seen below — started out with LeBatard asking Manfred directly if he was “aware of Jeter’s plan to trade players and slash payroll.” Manfred attempted to evade the simple yes or no question, but then said “we do not approve operating decisions by ownership, new ownership, current owners or not, and as a result the answer to that question is no.” He then said “I’m not going to be deposed like this is some adversary thing. You wanna ask me questions, I’m going to answer the way I want to answer them.”

LeBatard then called Manfred out, incredulous that Manfred was unaware of Jeter’s plans to trade players and slash payroll, saying “we’re starting out with a lie, Rob . . . you can’t tell me you’re not aware of this.” LeBatard pressed him again, saying “were you aware of this?” To which Manfred said, “no, we did not have player-specific plans from the Miami Marlins or any other team . . .” He also said that the league did not see a payroll plan from the Marlins “until two days ago.”